Tuesday, February 9, 2010
Who do you love?
It is a well known saying that "God hates the sin, but loves the sinner". I was pondering that saying today at work and realized that many times we as followers of Christ many times "love the sin, but hate the sinners". The point there being in short that we are often hypocrites. We speak out against those committing sin around us but in our private lives we sometimes practice that very sin. We condemn drunks, thieves, murderers, drug addicts, and of course all those two faced politicians. But in our own lives we have addictions (they seem harmless but are still sinful), we steal (it's only small things), we harbor hate towards others (which Jesus equated with murder), and when out in public we put on our best behavior despite the truth (just like the politicians). Instead of focusing our hate toward those committing the sin perhaps we should be more focused on fighting the same sins in our own lives. May we each strive to "hate the sin, but love the sinner".
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Excellent post! I've noticed so often that few Christians will actually go out of their way to just talk to a struggling young person who may be not a fellow Christian. It pains me to see is, since I know the positive things that can happen by even a kinda word to them.
ReplyDelete~Bethany~
Hello!
ReplyDeleteThis is my second time to your blog, and just wanted to let you know that I totally agree with this post. It has been an encouragement to me; please keep posting stuff like this! I'll definitely be back!
That well known saying is not a Reformed saying: remember that Psalm 5:5 says" The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity."
ReplyDelete@ Bethany ~ I think some of us take the idea that some are beyond hope. Thankfully Paul the apostle was not considered "beyond hope" by Barnabas.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous ~ Well I'm glad you are benefiting from the posts. But it appears you came back pretty fast and seemed to change your mind about this post. Now why do you get the impression that I'm "reformed"? I don't like labels like that. Instead I prefer to be biblical. But you do raise an interesting point here. Please note that I did not address the theological correctness of the well known saying. Instead I was using it as a basis for the main point of my post. And as Christians should we go around hating sinners? Or instead what they are doing? Please keep in mind in your answer that Christ said "Love your enimies". You must compare Scripture with Scripture.
Hello, again.
ReplyDeleteJust wanted to let you know, I am the first anonymous 'commenter', and not the second! I do still agree with this post, and the point you make in it. I try to be one to help(or love) the sinner, yet at the same time hate their sin, and try to keep that sin, whether in the same form, or another, out of my own life. This post has encouraged me in two ways. 1.) It is so easy to be a hypocrite, and say you believe one thing, and do another. And many people you meet are this way (I'm sure I have been guilty of this, but I do try my hardest to 'walk what I talk'). Anyway, what I am trying to say is that it is encouraging to know there are others out there who feel the same way! 2.) To me, this post was sort of a 'keep on keeping on' type of encouragement too. I hope you understand what I mean! Anyway, again, THANKS for this post, and keep it up!!
-A.B.
Daniel,
ReplyDeleteI forgot to post on the other post, but I voted on your poll Okay just because I think there should be more photos. Otherwise it's excellent!
@ A.B. I kinda figured it was somebody else. I just found it humorous that there were two commments under the same name that were so different. :) Anyway this post is definantly speaking to me because I find myself doing this so often (saying one thing and doing another). And yes I understand what you mean about "keep on keeping on". And ya'll's comments are an encouragement to me to do the same with my posts. Thanks for commenting.
ReplyDelete@ anon~ Yeah a couple people have mentioned that and I really should do better on that. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteDaniel,
ReplyDeleteI thought that you may be interested in the link below.
http://shop.nogreaterjoy.org/product_info.php/products_id/125
Have you heard of No Greater Joy Ministries?
~Cheyne
Cheyne,
ReplyDeleteYes I am familiar with them. Interesting title for a CD. But I didn't see a description. I assume since you brought it up you have heard it. So what is the main point? That God hates sinners? I know the verse says He is angry with the wicked every day. But are your parents ever angry with you? Does that mean they hate you?
Daniel,
ReplyDeleteThere isn't much of a 'description' for it, but what it does say is 'It’s time you knew the truth.' No, I have not listened to this particular message, though now you really make me wish I had.And now that we are on the topic, I'll have to ask my Dad to get that one! I've enjoyed many of Micheal Pearl's sermons and have found most of them (there are a few things that I do not agree with him on) to be very solidly based in the Bible (KJV only)
I have listened to his Romans message that deals with the believer living in sin. It is far too vast a topic to put it on here, but if you are really interested, you can listen to the sermons yourself.
As I read your comment, it comes across as a bit scornful. I do not know if that was your intent, but I will say right now, that I do not wish to argue with you.
Here is what I have found on the subject:
“There was a time when the mountain of granite was not under me but over me, ready to fall and crush me. It was the mountain of God’s wrath against my sin. God hated me in my sin. Yes, I think we need to go the full Biblical length and say that God hates unrepentant sinners. If I were to soften it, as we so often do, and say that God hates sin, most of you would immediately translate that to mean: he hates sin but loves the sinner. But Psalm 5:5 says, “The boastful may not stand before thy eyes; thou hatest all evildoers.” And Psalm 11:5 says, “The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and his soul hates him that loves violence.”" -John Piper
I looked up the quote of "God hates sin, but loves the sinner",to find out who said it; this is what I found: "It was not a divinely inspired author of Scripture but the Hindu Gandhi who coined the phrase "Love the sinner but hate the sin" in his 1929 biography." I was amazed at how many places I found that said that this is a false statement. One place sums it up very neatly for me:
" They say that God hates the sin but loves the sinner. These statements are all false doctrines not supported by Scripture. You cannot understand the awesome love, grace, mercy, and holiness of God while rejecting His jealousy, wrath, anger, hatred, and justice...
God does not love the evil person. God is not looking at the sin. He is looking at the person. The sin is not a separate entity apart from the sinner. The Bible shows throughout that God never separates the sinful person from the sin. Everyone will be held accountable and judged accordingly by a Holy God. The unconditional love of God does not exist. It is nonsense and false teaching."
The Bible clearly states:
Psalm 5:
4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: *thou hatest all workers of iniquity.*
Psalm 45:7a
Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness:
Hebrews 1:9a
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity;
these are just a few of the many verses I found, but you can look it up and find it in the Bible: God HATES sinners.
PS I advise the King James Version only, as, we are learning (through the book, Hazardous Materials) that other Bible versions are changed and are not the pure word of God as they were translated in error by wicked sinners. Yes, God can still use them. But let us be careful for "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:" (1 Peter 5:8)
Hope this helps
~Cheyne
Cheyne,
ReplyDeleteI don't see what you saw as scornful in my response. At the end I was merely making an analogy.
If someone says they don't want to argue and then restates thier point of view, I take that as they still want to argue.
First off you quote John Piper who also quotes some Scriptures. However I don't knwo why you bothered to quote him since he was using a heretical translation (not the KJV).
Then you list some Scriptures that on the surface seem to indicate that God hates sinners. But what they really show is that God hates what the sinners are doing, not the people themselves. God is not going around holding a grudge against those who disobey Him. He is a righteous judge that will punish the wicked, but He is also "not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance". Does that sound like a hateful God? You cannot take a position on Scripture, and then find the verses to back it up. You must search the Scriptures and then determine what you believe. You only have really two Scriptures listed here that speak to this subject. The rest plainly say that God hates the sin. And there are many verses like "God is Love". If God is one thing can he be the exact oposite at the same time?
And one more thing. In the future if you recommend a CD on my blog I'd appreciate it if you would listen to it first. I don't want people getting the impression that this CD is okay just because they see it on my blog. I at least want someone on here who has actually heard it.
ReplyDeleteDaniel,
ReplyDeleteMy apology for pointing you to the CD when I have not listened to it yet. I have learned something very important; it is something that I will not repeat.
I looked up the other Bible verses and then went and type them in as KJV. I remember now that John Piper switched from KJV, otherwise, I would NOT have quoted him. My apology on that as well.
I did not restate my opinion, however.
You said,
"You cannot take a position on Scripture, and then find the verses to back it up. You must search the Scriptures and then determine what you believe."
Yes, I agree with you. Perhaps I have not searched the Scriptures enough. I will search on that my next Bible reading.
I would like to ask, though, why you used Ghandi's quote?
I still do not wish to argue. A discussion is different and is fine with me.
I apologize again for mentioning the CD. That was foolish of me.
~Cheyne
Okay sorry for the misunderstanding. When you said you didn't want to aregue I figured that menat you didn't want to talk about it. But I realize there is a difference between an arguement and a discussion.
ReplyDeleteI actually did not know who origonated the quote. All I knew is that it was well known. And if you look at my origonal post, I was not discussing the phrase's theological correctness. Instead I was using it as an analogy. I think you have to agree with me that as Christians we are commanded to "hate the sin, but love the sinner". That was my point.
Daniel,
ReplyDeleteI was thinking on everything here, and went and re-read everything. I see, what your point is and yes, I have to agree with you on that and fully do.
I realize that I got off track and rushed on my first reply.
I still went and stuck my head in the concordance and my Bible, looking up the things that pertain to the quote, for I want to know all about it anyway. I want to know! I'm not done by any means, though. :) I think it is a far broader subject than I realized!
Thanks for the post.
~Cheyne